@CursedSilicon @gettie Eeyupp!
Same as with #SystemD: Shit's more dynamic and we can't sell people systems with #SysVinit startup speeds in the minutes like in 2007.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
Noone would've started either project if the preceding solutions were "fine". Cuz they weren't!
@mrmasterkeyboard @cesarpose I mean, #Xorg - like #SysVinit - both have severe issues that just ain't gonna be addressable under reasonable expectations re: hardware support, compatibility and software support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
There is no "#conspiracy" of #BigTech wanting to kill #X11 or even sabotage #Xlibre for that matter. It's just that some folks have trouble letting go and acknowledge that #Xserver is kept on "life support" as #Xwayland so people can run their 25+ year old #Windows games in #Wine without going apeshit.
@fabiscafe @okapi espechally in the form of an interactive desktop...
I could see it valid for multiple shell sessions, but #tmux & #screen cover that pretty well.
If one has to login into different machines then chances are #aithentification is centralized anyway.
Needless to say #modernizations like #SystemD don't happen because people like #Poettering are "hobbyless", but because the preexisting status-quo (#SysVinit) was slow, inflexible and error-prone by strict linearity and non-parallelization.
/etc/init
file one can literally get a system to hang due to a mistake (i.e. certain call doesn't get invoked correctly), whereas on #SystemD (and competing solutions like #LaunchD on #macOS and #SMF on #Solaris) your desktop / laptop will continue to noot even if it doesn't have a network connection. Not to mention as Benno Rice explained: 'Shit just gotmore dynamic!': We don't have that one big ass maingrame and serial terminals, instead we have laptops that may he carried around a campus or traveled with all day and that constantly switch between wireless and wired networks and have VPN tunnels open and whatnot...
@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse
#SysVinit works well, and is a problem only if you care about booting time. That's not the case of everybody.
Anyway, lots of alternatives exist nowadays: runit, open-rc, s6, etc.
All these alternatives get the best of both worlds: they remain mainly script-based, and they are much faster than SystemV.
@halva +9001%
I've used @ubuntu 7.04 and @opensuse 10.2 and noone wants to go back to those ages when we had #WiFi problems, had to fiddle with #nVidia drivers and #AMD was just not an option!
@tauon @radmin not really tho.
Have you ever had to deal with #SysVinit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
/etc/init
file...I do so myself in my free time...
I have been a linux user for more than 20 years, and a Debian user for a good 15 years now. For the first time, I feel like something is off. systemd feels like a Frankenstein that does not belong. It makes the system feel brittle and vulnerable.
Perhaps some more reading is in order. But I am also starting to look into things like Devuan.
Thoughts? Interesting takes and links?
@ainmosni@social.ainmosni.eu All the people harping on how #systemd is better than #sysvinit seem to have forgotten there were alternatives to sysvinit already...
That systemd Thing: A Debate With No Ending
https://eggflix.foolbazar.eu/videos/watch/dd6ab9d5-1ef9-4c35-91fa-e0885a1bcf50
Ok fam, after about a week of being a complete and utter newbie ingesting tutorials about #Linux I think I am finally understanding two things: what distros are, and that for some reason my brain will correlate ANY technical topic with food.
Linux is ice cream
Linux families are particular flavors of ice cream
And like ice cream, there’s basically certain core flavors, many specific flavors, and always the potential to invent new flavors. The ice cream landscape seems to break out something like this to a newbie:
Vanilla - Debian; French Vanilla - Ubuntu; Vanilla Bean - LMDE
Chocolate - Red Hat; Chocolate Chip - Fedora; Chocolate chocolate chip - Alma;
Fruit, Strawberry - Arch; Fruit, Peach or Cherry or pretty much any other fruit - any other Arch
Caramel - Gentoo; Vanilla Caramel Swirl - Redcore
Neapolitan and Spumoni - When you do super custom stuff like make Ubuntu have rolling release distro using Arch’s package system with Gentoo’s OpenRC for the init system
Exotic, like cucumber or ranch or avocado - Everything else that isn’t one of the other big buckets like SUSE, Solus, Quirky, LFS, Zeroshell, Vine, etc.
Nuts - Slackware (I mean this in an affectionate way, butter pecan is my fav!)
Gelato - BSD
Chocolate Gelato - Solaris
Like ice cream, Linux can have toppings too:
Sauce - init systems; and some people hate chocolate sauce - systemd
Whipped cream. Yeah sure there’s different brands and differences in texture or flavor a bit, but they’re basically all doing the same stuff - Packaging
Cherry - the GUI. It’s only there for looks, you could absolutely eat the ice cream without it, but most diners expect it on their sundae
Distros - An ice cream sundae. All the things (flavor, toppings, what it’s served in) are presented to you at once. Oooor some of the more lean ones are more like an ice cream cone
Eating a pint of ice cream right outta the freezer container - CLI
I'm now gonna try Arch Linux with inits I haven't tried/not yet familiar. I'm curious how it'll all go, lol.
I'm open for any suggestions on what inits to try other than OpenRC, runit, dinit, s6, and sysvinit cos I've already done those, but I'm also open to hear your thoughts and if I should also try them on Arch as well.
#arch #archlinux #linux #opensource #freesoftware #foss #busybox #openrc #runit #dinit #s6 #s6-rc #sysvinit
So, from my notes:
#voidlinux: symlink a service's name from /etc/sv/ to /var/service to enable a service then sv up & down will become available for that service.
#chimeralinux: dinitctl, kinda like systemctl
#devuan: update-rc.d <service> default to get it on the runlevels, then enable/disable to do fun things. Only do update-rc.d remove when the package is removed from the system.. Gotcha
7 seconds. Not bad, but look at that RAM usage...
220 MiB ! That's actually lightweight!
530 MiB with xorg+xfce 4.18. Still lightweight !