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Interesting article on so-called "long vax", rare long-COVID-like syndrome linked to COVID vaccines.
Risk clearly far lower than getting longCOVID from COVID itself (which everyone will of course get at some point), really hard to convincingly demonstrate a connection, and I worry about confounders here. Plus of course anti-vaxxers will try to make hay.
But as Harlan says, as a scientists there's "an obligation to have an open mind". https://www.science.org/content/article/rare-link-between-coronavirus-vaccines-and-long-covid-illness-starts-gain-acceptance
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I'm quite surprised that the phenomenon of developing these symptoms after a vaccination wasn't easily foreseen as simply a natural consequence of rolling out a virus vaccine to the public — right in the middle of an epidemic of said virus.
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Before the pandemic, we already knew that:
1) Most viral symptoms are not direct results of the virus, but are rather results of the immune system's response to the virus.
2) A large percentage of viral infections are asymptomatic, some simply because the immune system does not recognize the virus.
3) If you receive the vaccination at the same time that you have an asymptomatic infection, your new immune response can lead to the development of new symptoms.
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We already knew all this.
Therefore, shouldn't we have been able to predict that this phenomenon would happen as simply a natural consequence of rolling out a virus vaccine to the public — right in the middle of an epidemic of said virus?
@pyrrhus @richardsever I wonder too about the assumption that those who developed adverse reaction X to a vaccine would somehow avoid a more severe bout of X when infected with the virus if it is the immune response that appears to be the cause.
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I think the assumption is that the immune response to a viral infection is quite different from the immune response to a vaccine, and therefore the symptoms associated with a viral infection can be quite severe while the symptoms associated with a vaccine can be barely noticeable.
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@pyrrhus @richardsever “I think the assumption is that the immune response to a viral infection is quite different from the immune response to a vaccine”
Can you maybe explain this to me a little more. I’ve worked from the assumption that the immune response is not different as much as it is less or modified?
To my simplified understanding the myo/pericarditis seems to demonstrate this?
@auscandoc @pyrrhus I assume there will be a lot more antigens with viral infection and a broader response to 'disease'. With the vaccine it's basically just Spike. that might underlie myocarditis in both cases but still be a subset of what's experienced in viral infection - no? I mean there is no way you're gonna get a cytokine storm with the vaccine.
@richardsever @pyrrhus My “wondering” is if it is antigen volume (+/- genetic/sex/age predisposition) that plays a part in triggering the cytokine storm rather than antigen diversity (wondering as I really know so little about it). What reading I have done seems to implicate the spike and not the other antigens. Very interested in other reading though #myocarditis #SARSCOV2 #mRNAVaccine
E.g. (now I don’t claim to understand much of this :). https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.adh3455