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@milkman76 @majorlinux Had a bunch of my friends try Mastodon. Many of them found it confusing, and just left. I tried my best to explain it and even wrote tutorials. Only a handful stayed.

Then others were run off because of anti-black racism. (A lot of Instances are just terrible. In my quest to find a home, I saw so many places using slurs. Hard R too.)

I've accepted that I'll be here and on Bluesky. That's okay, I don't believe in using a single social media platform.

@silver_huskey @majorlinux yeah, this. Im nb, a writer, tech worker, hard leftist, and I keep hearing (but not really seeing) this. Ive heard this identical thing for 8 years now, on and off, since the first large migration of users began, which threatened the large corporate networks who want ALL the data to train their "AI" with. That's right around the time when the "its too hard" and "its filled with racism" people showed up.

@silver_huskey @majorlinux Im not entirely sure about this. Im antifascist as fuck and I look for a fight with racists and people from that ideology every day that Im online (which is every day), but I dont see anywhere near as much of that here as on any of the other corporate, non-decentralized networks.

Also mastodon dot social is connected to threads, which is facebook, and can re-expose people to the standard racism and bigotry that exist there.

@milkman76 @silver_huskey Funny thing is, my experience with Threads and Mastodon are inverse to yours.

I have found way more leftists and LGBTQIA+ folks there than I have here and have interacted with their content.

Here, I've seen more liberals than I can shake a stick at and was literally hate bombed on July 4, 2023. That's two days before Threads was even a thing.

So, I don't know what to tell you.

@majorlinux @silver_huskey you got "hate bombed"????

Ive been trying to get hate bombed here for literally 8 years, as Ive been doing online for the better part of 25 years. I go uninvited into large mainstream threads and write hard left politics, speak on the Israeli genocide of palestine, LGBTQ rights,m etc etc, but I get back 1/1000th the hate here as on any other network Ive used.

Not you though?

@milkman76 @silver_huskey I was sitting on a train minding my own business.

Nothing provoked it.

It just happened.

While I do have the reports I filed on my own server to stem the bleeding, the original posts have been purged to reign in storage.

@milkman76 @silver_huskey

BECAUSE I AM A BLACK MAN ON THE INTERNET!

Why do racists do anything?

However, this interaction is by far worse than anything a racist would ever do to me.

@majorlinux @silver_huskey this is worse for you than any racist interaction? Wow... ok... I think I see what Im dealing with here.

@milkman76 @majorlinux Again, it just gets tiring having to explain it over again.

Personally, just keep in mind that Mastodon and the Fediverse can be worse than corpo social media in some ways, for some people. Maybe, just believe them a bit more.

@silver_huskey @majorlinux speaking of believing people -- you are saying I must believe you even though there isnt any evidence of anything (its all private, hidden, deleted), and so therefore I should agree that mastodon is shit and racist without actually verifying that myself even though this SPECIFICALLY helps facebook and fascist twitter companies claw back users? Huh.

@milkman76 @silver_huskey @majorlinux I haven't been here nearly as long as you and I've watched it happen multiple times, because I follow black users.

@neckspike @silver_huskey @majorlinux I follow everyone. Yeah hopefully mastodon doesnt get trashed by the same people who fucked up twitter and facebook, and the entire american and western culture lmao, but it looks like we are headed for troubled waters again.

@milkman76 @silver_huskey @majorlinux Clearly you don't or this wouldn't be news or "hidden" from you.

@neckspike @silver_huskey @majorlinux oh, right, yeah. I get you. I must specifically avoid following black and brown people, so this is why I dont see the racism. Gotcha. How easily that comes to you!

Lol this is how you destroy camaraderie. Its the opposite of constructing anything. Take care.

@milkman76 @silver_huskey @majorlinux With "comrades" like you, who needs enemies?

@neckspike @silver_huskey @majorlinux indeed. The internet sure has been hard on the minds of some. Good luck!

@silver_huskey @majorlinux 30+ year tech worker, and I know mastodon very well. Its tiring explaining this to people, but this is my life lol.

I know how to access almost any masto instance, yes, which is why was interested in the instances seeing waves of bullshit. I literally want to try to engage and fight fascists, as Ive been doing offline and online for decades of my life. I want to protect masto.

@milkman76 @majorlinux This will be my last bit of input before I bounce from my PC to unwind.

A good way to help people would be to believe them when they say the racists/fascists are here, and that it's worse than corpo social media. Follow more black people too. Listen a bit more.

@silver_huskey @majorlinux a good way to create camaraderie and trust between random potential allies online is to, of course, provide receipts for issues of reputation that can and will harm the one fucking place online that isnt as much polluted with corporate bullshit and hosts many people who fled from the other places.

Trust is built, friend. Try to remember that in these times.

@milkman76 you're literally demanding trust while not offering any.

"Prove this to me or you're wrong" (paraphrased) followed by "trust is built". Are you serious? Read your own words there.

@juergen_hubert we arent talking about this in a vacuum. We are talking about an active manipulation and deception system that tries to bad jacket and discredit wholesome people, activities, entire ethnic groups, etc, and today we are talking about the decentralized networks of mastodon where MANY refugees from fb and twitter went. We are discussing summarily condemning their spaces - our spaces - without evidence because sometimes, outside this space, people dont listen to black people.

@milkman76 Quite a lot of people around here don't listen to black people either, it seems.

@neckspike @silver_huskey @majorlinux if you expect assumptions about everything that benefits your position, and refuse to provide even one fucking link to one fucking thread where all the hidden racism is, I am beginning to suspect you arent authentic.

From 5 things white people can do to start making the fediverse less toxic for Black people:

"It's also worth looking it over to make sure you haven't unintentionally said something anti-Black (or more generally racist). For example, stop saying there isn't racism on the fediverse or asking Black people for evidence of anti-Blackness. Dozens of Black people have shared the evidence repeatedly. If you want to see specific examples, do the work yourself to find them rather than expecting Black people to do free, individualized education for you."

@milkman76 @neckspike @silver_huskey @majorlinux

@juergen_hubert who is questioning someone's life experiences? This is all about DISCREDITING an entire-ass leftist-leaning refugee social network that was created as a place for twitter and fb users to flee to.

OBVIOUSLY the corporate bastards who own and operate those other horrible, racism and bigotry-friendly networks want these networks to fail, which is why there are people claiming "the racism is worse here than twitter/threads/bsky" without showing any evidence.

@milkman76 What, do you think leftist spaces can't have racism?

Do you really think all the black posters around here are part of a Capitalist conspiracy?

@juergen_hubert you, or others like you(I dont know who you are) may have entered the phase where you do not ask for evidence before acting and shifting opinions, but I have not and I will not. If it is wrong to ask for evidence, that I am happy to be wrong.

Ive been here 8 years and Ive used 5 accounts, and I *seek out* racists and fascists, yet the number Ive run into on these servers has been exponentially less than twit/fb/threads/bsky. I wont condemn ALL OF THIS without evidence. No.

@milkman76 How many accounts of black users do you actively follow? They have all the evidence you need.

Of course, if they keep on blocking you because you keep on harassing them I can understand why you don't "see" their evidence.

@juergen_hubert I dont always check the skin color of accounts I follow, Im sorry. Should I start now, Jurgen?

Blocking me? You seem confused. When I find bad faith accounts condemning people, spaces, brands, etc, with zero evidence, who then try to shame anyone who asks for it, I am informed, I block them, and I move on. Is this confusing for you? You seem to want to paint some spectacular picture of me, yet we've just met.

@milkman76 Depends. Do you want to experience a more diverse representation of the world which helps you better understand it and your own underlying assumptions?

But I guess you are probably the kind of person who thinks saying "I don't see color!" makes you sound not racist, rather than clueless.

@juergen_hubert its weird, but I get this impression you think you are teaching me something, or that I have made a mistake you think needs correction. Do you understand the comments that came before these, and my underlying point of view, or are you fluffing up the narrative as much as possible?

I dont owe you a fucking explanation, but I am a nonbinary marxist and COVID-isolation family fighting eugenics in the US, and Im as antifascist as anyone you know, but by all means continue. Paint me.

@milkman76 So have you ever personally experienced racism?

@juergen_hubert you first, Jurgen. Have you experienced racism? Im not in the habit of becoming too personal with bad faith accounts, which you are clearly.

@milkman76 No, but I have friends who have.

And I've listened to their experiences without questioning them. And according to them, this is apparently _bloody rare_ for a white person.

@juergen_hubert we arent talking about yours or mine firsthand experiences with friends in life, lol. We are talking about random, unverifiable, newish mastodon accounts speaking catastrophically and summarily - without evidence - about a decentralized social network that is seen as a haven for *many of us* in marginalized fucking communities. Some of us, indeed, are fucking defensive about it.

If you choose not to understand my point, its a choice. I write well, and at length.

@milkman76 The posters you have challenged have been around here for two years or more.

And should I, as a cishet person, question your lived experiences with discrimination as an nobinary person? Because that's what you sound like regarding black posters.

@juergen_hubert Ive never seen those accounts, and Ive been here since 2018. Main is here:
https://mastodon.social/@Milkman76

I have 4 others on various servers, from veganism to zeroes.ca. Do I see racism? Of course, and I go to it like a fly to shit, and I write long-form criticism and mockery. Ive been doing it close to 30 years(obvs not on masto). I would NOT describe, however, what I see here to be "filled with racism", which is what the OP, way the fuck back, asserted.

@milkman76 The OP has more than 21,000 posts in their history. So how come you have never seen them before?

@juergen_hubert uhh. Are you seriously asking me why I havent run across a random account? Or making any issue, at all, whatsoever, about me not knowing who they are? lol this is *exhausting*.

@milkman76 I don't "speak for" them, I merely want to encourage everyone to actually listen what they are saying instead of dismissing them.

@juergen_hubert yes, and this is how I live. I have never been under suspicion or doubt in this fucking thread, and the inception of it was about WHETHER OR NOT MASTO IS LITERALLY OVERRUN with racists and fascists, who attack anyone of diversity. This. This. This is the fucking point.

Are you aware that this is what started the interaction in the first place? Hello?

@juergen_hubert I see. You got tired, or your shift ended, or your script ran into an exception. lmao I see.

@milkman76 @juergen_hubert I understand that you have many accounts on a variety of servers, but all the ones you listed are pretty well moderated. I suspect your experience is heavily influenced by the often unseen work of the mods and admins of those servers. However, @majorlinux is running his own server, meaning all moderation work is his own. I'm sure he sees what you literally can't due to your mod teams' work. As an admin, I know I try to proactively shield my users as much as possible.

@milkman76 @juergen_hubert @majorlinux Unlike on centralized sites like Twitter where once a shitty account is banned, it can't bother anyone again, accounts get blocked server by server here. That means any awful account or server can have an outsized effect by moving to new targets on servers that haven't blocked them yet. So, whether or not the percentage of awful accounts is higher, their individual ability to do harm can persist longer.

@milkman76 @juergen_hubert @majorlinux There are even multi-server groups on other Fediverse platforms (which connect with Mastodon) which band together and can easily initiate dogpiling. No matter how many servers block them, they aren't _removed_ the way that they are on centralized platforms. Things get posted on Fedi platforms which would get auto-flagged via word filters on many centralized platforms.

@milkman76 @juergen_hubert @majorlinux I love Mastodon and being away from corporate control, but it comes with tradeoffs, and those tradeoffs often have a greater impact on some people (like Black folks in this case) than others.

@bodhipaksa @majorlinux@toot.majorshouse.com @silver_huskey@fandom.ink interesting. An MLK quote in the context of a thread about bad-jacketing and infiltration - the utilization of black identities to spread bad info and to deny black people any safe spaces anywhere. Timely.

I wonder, which white moderate do you think MLK was talking about? Maybe he was actually talking about disabled leftists, LGBTQ activists, etc, by "white moderate"?

@milkman76 Goodbye, troll.

@ttpphd it's so easy, isn't it - which was part of my original point. No effort whatsoever.

@milkman76

'Sabrina Romanoff, PsyD explains, "Active listening requires de-centering from one’s fixed position to be fully present with another. It helps people feel more understood and strengthens relationships as it signals a willingness to sit with the other’s perspective and empathy for their situation instead of singular focus on oneself." '

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-active-listening-3024343

If you want to combat racism, try de-centering yourself (a white person) and instead center the people harmed by racism.

@ttpphd Greenwald describes (and there are a dozen other studies on this) how the "state's covert agents infiltrate the internet to manipulate, deceive, and destroy reputations"

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

This has been happening increasingly, and while you might not understand it, accept it, or part of the group who fight against this, I will not enter a realm where we dont ask for evidence before acting.

No. This has nothing to do with "centering" unless you have a motive to make it so.